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| classes:2009:fall:phys4101.001:q_a_1012 [2009/10/11 11:32] – yk | classes:2009:fall:phys4101.001:q_a_1012 [2009/11/30 16:49] (current) – youmans |
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| ^ name ^ accept proposal ^ comments ^ | ^ name ^ accept proposal ^ comments ^ |
| | |Captain America| yes| I like having some useful equations with me, and I would say it is slightly better than having a general equation sheet for two reasons. First, some of the equations are easy enough to remember, or we use them often enough that it is no big deal (take Schrodinger's equation for example). I assume the sheet provided to us would be about 10 equations anyway, but picking the equations we want to use ourselves forces us to study more proficiently (finding which equations are useful out of the 50+ equations provided by Griffiths each chapter). The second reason is that we can write down helpful equations that normally wouldn't be provided. I refer more to equations that can be easily enough derived from the Schrodinger equation, but take time that we don't want to spend on the test doing it. This is probably more of a problem for just me, but everything I do on a test takes 5x longer than normal, and having something that is elementary but still time-saving can be a big help.| |
| |zeno|yes|see below| | |zeno|yes|see below| |
| |Spehrical Chicken|yes|I agree that being able to solve a problem and being able to pull it out on demand in such a limited time is kind of .... dis-similar to real live demands and what we should be trying to do in the objective of learning material... I'm very much for allowing a limited amount of notes or a card or something -- something that allows helps us remain confident (something I have a horrible problem with in exams, like Zeno) yet is limited enough to show we understand concepts. Like Zeno said, in real life, we are usually allowed a much more flexible amount of time to solve problems, the ability to look up our own notes etc... I don't see that allowing students to write a small note card would compromise the integrity of the standard, or keep us from obtaining the 'independent reasoning' we're trying to learn.| | |Spehrical Chicken|yes|I agree that being able to solve a problem and being able to pull it out on demand in such a limited time is kind of .... dis-similar to real live demands and what we should be trying to do in the objective of learning material... I'm very much for allowing a limited amount of notes or a card or something -- something that allows helps us remain confident (something I have a horrible problem with in exams, like Zeno) yet is limited enough to show we understand concepts. Like Zeno said, in real life, we are usually allowed a much more flexible amount of time to solve problems, the ability to look up our own notes etc... I don't see that allowing students to write a small note card would compromise the integrity of the standard, or keep us from obtaining the 'independent reasoning' we're trying to learn.| |
| |David Hilbert's Hat|Yes|The note card seems like a really good idea. For the integrals that seem really difficult like on the first test, you could write down the general form - that way, you don't have to memorize it and when you get to it on the test you can solve it. I think a lot of people knew what they had to do, the formula for standard deviation is easy to know and the integrals were done in the homework a few times, but a lot of people just didn't know how to solve such an integral off the top of their head. So a notecard makes something like this a bit easier to put on the test, because if you conceptually understand the entire problem you won't get strung up on losing points because you didn't memorize an integral formula. My only concern would be the ones given by Anaximenes; I would very much not like to see the test get heavier on computation, but I think Yuichi wants to not make them harder considering what he's said in class and the e-mail. Equation counting seems fairly straightforward though, so I wouldn't worry about that on a notecard. If you turn them in on the Wednesday before the test you should have ample time to get everything cleared up.| | |David Hilbert's Hat|Yes|The note card seems like a really good idea. For the integrals that seem really difficult like on the first test, you could write down the general form - that way, you don't have to memorize it and when you get to it on the test you can solve it. I think a lot of people knew what they had to do, the formula for standard deviation is easy to know and the integrals were done in the homework a few times, but a lot of people just didn't know how to solve such an integral off the top of their head. So a notecard makes something like this a bit easier to put on the test, because if you conceptually understand the entire problem you won't get strung up on losing points because you didn't memorize an integral formula. My only concern would be the ones given by Anaximenes; I would very much not like to see the test get heavier on computation, but I think Yuichi wants to not make them harder considering what he's said in class and the e-mail. Equation counting seems fairly straightforward though, so I wouldn't worry about that on a notecard. If you turn them in on the Wednesday before the test you should have ample time to get everything cleared up.| |
| |Andromeda|yes|As far as equation sheet goes i think it will be very helpfull to be allowed to have one especially for integral formulas. it is very time consuming trying to do the integral on the test.| | |Andromeda|yes|As far as equation sheet goes i think it will be very helpfull to be allowed to have one especially for integral formulas. it is very time consuming trying to do the integral on the test.| |
| | |nikif002|yes|I am very used to taking tests with notesheets, and I find it very helpful, so it would we a welcome addition to the class. I fail to see the point of the limit, though. I think we'll end up having only around 10 equations per quiz anyways, so I don't think this is a big issue, but I think we should be free to put as many as we want on there. A person who spent hours writing every single equation in the book on the notecard in micro-print won't have an advantage, they'll just have wasted their time and they will get confused on the test. This is especially true of material that is highly conceptual, such as that found in this class. A good rule to specifically impose is no examples or proofs on the notecard. I also don't see the point of collecting them and re-distributing them. From my experience, proctors walking around the room and glancing at people's notecards is enough deterrent to not break the rules. However, if you wish to inspect the notecards before the test, perhaps instead of collecting physical copies, this wiki can somehow be used to save some time and paper. What would be the implications if everyone's notecards were on a public page and we could see what our classmates are planning to put on theirs?| |
| | |spillane|yes| |
| | |John Galt|no|I hold the same opinion as Schrodinger's dog. I am for this individual quiz grade revision, I suppose, but I don't like the idea of an open notes or notecard test. If at all possible, I would rather see more homework or more example problems, but I do remember seeing nearly everything that was on the test (except for maybe problem 3).| |
| | |Liam Devlin|??|I like the idea of having a standard equations sheet written by Yuichi. I think it is more fair in a test situation if everyone has the same resource. Also, if we are given the sheet before the test, we could use it to study. Also, I'm completely against an open book test because I feel like that will just make the test questions ridiculously hard.| |
| | |Hydra|no| Maybe a standard equation sheet by Yuichi, but otherwise no eqn sheet. I'd rather have the test start everybody off on the same ground. And definitely no open book test! | |
| | |liux0756|no| |
| | |Daniel Faraday|no|We are already able to ask a proctor for the form of an equation if we know what equation we need. To me, that removes any incentive to have note cards. Also, it takes time and effort to prepare a note card, and that time does not go towards learning quantum physics. If there were a note card, I would want it to be done the way Prof Lysak does it, where every student gets a sheet of formulas with the exam. The formula sheet is also posted a week before the exam so students can see what is going to be on it. Then our skill at preparing note cards doesn't affect our exam performance.| |
| | |Jake22|No|This is an introductory course, and I do not believe we should be allowed any supplemental material other than an equation sheet provided by the professor with the test. We are not allowed to bring notecards for the GRE. If we should be allowed anything extra to help us during the test, we should be allowed to access the text and have the difficulty raised accordingly.| |
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| ====General feedback on how the class is going ==== | ====General feedback on how the class is going ==== |
| As far as equation sheet goes i think it will be very helpfull to be allowed to have one especially for integral formulas. it is very time consuming trying to do the integral on the test. | As far as equation sheet goes i think it will be very helpfull to be allowed to have one especially for integral formulas. it is very time consuming trying to do the integral on the test. |
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| | ===poit0009 10/11 2:10 PM=== |
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| | I agree very much with Andromeda. I feel like a list of relevant integrals or very basic equations would not take away from the physics we should understand, yet would make the test much easier to complete in the allotted time. I don't like the idea of a student-generated notecard with a set number of allowed equations. Standardized resources make for the most fair test. |
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| | ===spillane=== |
| | I also agree with poit0009 and Andromeda. Who would have put half angle identities on a note card? Not me. |
| | On the other hand, a note card would not have made my score on the exam worse. However it my not have been useful. |
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| | ===John Galt 10/12 9:08 AM=== |
| | I would rather do more homework problems than have shorter or easier or open notes or open book tests. I just want the homework to be similar to the test and the examples in class to be similar to the homework. I think a pretty good job is being done on this, but that more examples and more homework might be a good idea. This could be facilitated by having the discussion sections not be about group problem solving so much, as it seems, often enough, that groups have very little idea how to do the problems presented in discussion section anyway, no matter how well they cooperate, and that it might be more useful to spend that time on a detailed problem solving lesson. I really like this idea. Does anyone else? |
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| | ===Captain America 10/12 10:22 AM=== |
| | I sort of like your idea John, but I would like to change it a bit. The problem solving discussions are actually one of my favorite ways to learn since the problems require a lot of thinking and usually discussion on what everyone thinks should happen. This is particularly useful because it highlights everyone's decision processes in how to go about solving problems (and what relevant parameters and solution methods are to a particular QM problem). What I don't like about the discussions is that the problems are generally hard enough that most people don't have any idea on what to do, and it feels like this is very unhelpful when it happens. I feel like being given multiple problems that are at an easier or more basic level would probably be much better for helping us understand how to solve problems. |
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| | One of the most difficult parts of QM is just understanding it, so being given a problem that is over our heads is not usually very productive. I realize we should learn how to do these harder problems as well, but a lot of the time it just feels like "Okay I understand how to do it after you told me, but I never would have thought of that myself..." |
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| | ===Green Suit 10/12 2:30=== |
| | There's no "right" solution to this issue but I believe there are some prerequisites that must be satisfied. |
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| | 1) Reading must be completed prior to lecture and discussion. For whatever reason (busy schedules, higher priorities) I've heard more then once that someone hadn't completed the reading prior to class. |
| | 2) Beginning (attempting) homework prior to Monday. This goes along with reading. Attempting the homework expands upon what basic knowledge was attained after reading. In addition, attempting homework generates questions for lecture and discussion. Putting off homework until the last minute is a bad, but very easy, habit to fall into. |
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| | Before we point fault elsewhere let's first evaluate ourselves! |
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| **Q&A for the previous lecture: [[Q_A_1009]]**\\ | **Q&A for the previous lecture: [[Q_A_1009]]**\\ |
| **Q&A for the next lecture: [[Q_A_1014]]** | **Q&A for the next lecture: [[Q_A_1014]]** |
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